Sunday, July 20, 2008

Chareidim and BTs

One of my friends posted this article on facebook and I was compelled to pass it on.
"Yeshiva world and BTs"


SubWife said...

With regards to shidduchim, this article might be right. I did not have the same experience (and haven't heard of anyone either) with schools or making friends. I am always suspicious when no names are used. "highly regarded" "establshed", etc. Give me names!!! I think it is exaggerated.

Sally Hazel said...

I have a good friend in Israel who's got a couple of scary stories to tell. And, there is an obvious reason why no names are mentioned.

Barb Chansky said...

Why would we stop being second class citizens after we are married? As for mentioning names, the reason for that was at the beginning of the article: people are afraid, and with very good reasons. I, on the other hand, am very seriosly considering to start naming names, but that would require a separate entry.

SubWife said...

I know why they don't name names, but it also allows for saying anything without any degree of responsibility. And honestly, if this is the policy of the institution, then 1) people should be warned, 2) they are obviously not embarrassed to publicize it.

On the other hand, if the names were named, it would be easier to spot inaccuracies. For example, in Brooklyn, pretty much any respectable educational institution has BT children. I haven't heard horror stories yet. About Brooklyn, that is.

As for Israel, I claim complete ignorance.

And shidduchim. Pretty much anyone with any blemish on their resume is a second-class citizen: children of divorced parents, ppl with siblings off the derech, children of parents with little means, those who use plastic on their tablecloth, Sefardim, geirim (those are by the one treated MUCH worse than BTs in shiddichim), overweight, over 25, (and pretty much all females). Anything that makes you stand out is not a good thing. So this is not exclusive to BTs.

Sally Hazel said...

Subw, just to be devil's advocate I must say the following:
-no institution is going to openly publicize such 'policies'- some rules are firm but unspoken;
-I don't know what constitutes ' any respectable educational institution' in Brooklyn but I would hazard to say that neither I nor you have first hand knowledge of ALL the 'respectable educational institutions' of Brooklyn.
In general, it's easier to deny something disturbing than to acknowledge the possibility that it may be true. The truth may be too painful to handle.
Plus, if you so strongly disagree with the writer of the article or have some good points to add (though again, the article was there to address a specific issue, not all the troubles of the community in general and with shiduchim in particular), post a comment to his article with a link to your comment in my humble blog.

SubWife said...

The site is under maintenance. Is it a conspiracy?

Well, I could be a fool in denial, but I am sticking to my original position. Yes, truth could hurt. It is easier to sit and complain how the world sucks, community is rotten and corrupt, how disgusting people are than to give the benefit of the doubt... I suspect in some of those cases the kids for whatever reason just didn't fit in (and this happens in FFB families all the time as well), and the parents would rather see the fault with schools than with themselves or with their precious offspring. And in retelling the story, the truth gets severely exaggerated and distorted. By not mentioning any names, the commenter or original author has a green light to say whatever and whenever because he bears hardly any responsibility for his words. As a result of this, the entire frum community looks exceptionally disgusting, and there's little recourse (one cannot effective defend an unknown school )because who can claim familiarity with every respectable institution in - let's say - Brooklyn? Also, this anonymity hurts the author because his words cannot be proven. So thus there's a lot of bad press and talk, and little can be done or addressed because of this anonymity.

And by the way, I don't deny that there could be problems with certain institutions. I just don't think it's a rampant abuse and neglect of BTs everywhere. And in any institution that I or my FFB neighbors would consider sending our child, one would find BT children, happy and thriving. If the discrimination were that widespread, then I am sure I would've heard about it many, many times, like I heard horror stories about shidduchim.

Sally Hazel said...

Depending on how much time you want to spend on this you can actually read the original article for which the link is just a long commentary, if you will.
Blaming a brave person who speaks up when many just keep quiet is a natural reaction of people whose equillibrium is thus disturbed. The examples may be extreme but that's what it often takes for a concept to resonate.
Anyway, enjoy all the benefits your doubt may bring. Peace.